Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and an NBC News reporter had a tense interview published Monday that widely centered around his conspiratorial views on vaccines, with the reporter calling their encounter "unsettling."
Described by NBC News' Brandy Zadrozny as "one of the world's foremost conspiracy theorists," Kennedy was pushed on why he was running as a Democrat given his appeal to some corners of the political right, why he touts the unfounded theory of childhood vaccinations being linked to autism and the longshot nature of his 2024 challenge to President Biden for the Democratic nomination.
Kennedy, who conducted the talk while recently hiking with his dogs in Los Angeles, told Zadrozny "people should be scared" because of the country's vast institutional corruption, suggested he was running for president because he had been previously censored by social media and balked at her questions about vaccines, saying he wasn't leading his candidacy with the issue and wasn't trying to duck it because of the controversy it's caused him.
"If anybody wants to talk to me about vaccines, I’ll talk to them," he said. "But it’s not an issue that I’m leading with."
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It's still an inescapable topic and one he does tend to relish in the right environment. Kennedy's interview on the widely streamed "Joe Rogan Experience" podcast brought forth a firestorm of criticism over his unchecked remarks about vaccinations, as well as 5G technology and a broad conspiracy involving the pharmaceutical industry and medical experts. He wrote a 2005 piece published in left-wing sites Rolling Stone and Salon that laid out an extensive conspiracy about vaccines and autism that had to be heavily corrected and included supposedly damning quotes that were taken out of context; Salon ultimately retracted it.
He's also floated his vocal disorder called spasmodic dysphonia that makes his voice strained is tied to getting a flu shot, although he's acknowledged he has no proof.
Kennedy's dalliances with some populist media figures like Rogan and Jordan Peterson, and his rhetoric about powerful alphabet agencies and untrustworthy establishment experts, have earned him some Republican fans.
Among their other testy exchanges came when Zadrozny, who hasn't troubled to hide her liberal opinions in her social media and MSNBC appearances, suggested Kennedy was running in the wrong party when he mentioned his new Republican fans.
"Why not run as a Republican?" she asked.
"Because I’m a Democrat," he replied.
"But maybe you’re not?" she shot back.
The report noted he looked "annoyed" at the questioning. Kennedy is, after all, the scion of one of the most famous political dynasties in U.S. history and continues to hold liberal views on a wide variety of issues.
Kennedy, who has been particularly lauded on the left for his environmental work, has continued to criticize vaccinations and has gotten newfound attention since COVID-19 gripped the world.
"In the early days, I was wrong about a lot of things," he told NBC. "But you know, now I’m very, very careful about everything."
He also balked at the reporter saying the COVID-19 vaccines had saved lives, saying, "Why do you say that?" He countered they had actually killed more people than they had saved and said she was wrong to trust experts.
"This is just not true," Zadrozny wrote, linking to a report about a 2021-2022 study showing COVID death rates in the most vaccinated U.S. states was nearly twice as low as those in the least vaccinated. Vaccine mandates and the fact that they haven't prevented transmission or contraction of the virus have brought the "jabs" under criticism, while proponents counter they have reduced severe outcomes and overall saved lives.
Despite the CDC’s September 2022 recommendation that all vaccinated people 12 years and older should receive a booster dose, the vast majority of Americans have not received it. Studies have shown the bivalent mRNA vaccine protects better against hospitalization and death but the durability of the protection has not been great. The vaccine was found to be effective for longer periods in people without immunocompromising conditions (weakened immune systems).
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"We go on like this, literally and figuratively, downhill for the next half-hour," Zadrozny wrote. "For someone who isn’t leading with vaccines, this is the topic that lights Kennedy up. Listening to Kennedy speak about vaccines is unsettling. It’s like being in a room with a man unspooling his red string, connecting various directors of government agencies with pharmaceutical company executives, philanthropists, prominent doctors and public health advocates, media and tech organizations."
Kennedy also got irritated with a question about the viability of his candidacy, which has polled surprisingly strongly but in part may be owed to his name. He's the namesake of his famous father Bobby Kennedy and his uncle is President John F. Kennedy. Nevertheless, he is still 40 points behind Biden in his most favorable polls and the Democratic establishment is largely ignoring him or calling him a crank.
"Tell me something," he told NBC, "did you think Donald Trump would win?"
Zadrozny acknowledged some of Kennedy's views have undercurrents of truth, like the influence of the pharmaceutical industry on medicine and doctors and drug companies making decisions based on profit, but the reporter who focuses on misinformation concluded overall he was a dangerous and unethical force that would upend safe childhood vaccines.
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Kennedy has focused on numerous other issues in his campaign, including this week when he proposed using federal housing vouchers to end homelessness. He has also said he wants to rebuild the middle class, put an end to the Ukraine-Russia war diplomatically and seal the southern border.
Fox News' Melissa Rudy contributed to this report.
